Versed, Re-versed & Unversed « Structures, Styles and Sonnetation «
Suggestions
Tracey from Spanktown Associate, 1891 posts |
Seeking more info about the connachlonn: Do you know anything about its history, how it came about, what the typical themes are? (Yes, I know I can look this up online and will if this is wasting your time. I'm asking you because I like the way you present info.) Thank you! |
Leanne from Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3019 posts |
I think the origins are well lost in history. It's Irish but very commonly used in Scotland (obviously there's been a bit of traffic between the two countries), and it's a bardic form. The sonics are vitally important -- the bards used sounds to build moods and rhymes would aid memory, since connachlonns (like most bardic forms) could be very, very long. They're used for ballads, mostly, and can be quite heroic. Essentially they're poems about people/gods/heroes. |
| Tracey from Spanktown Associate, 1891 posts |
I find it interesting that they were typically about people/heroes/gods because the form felt very "conversational" to me. I think that's why I wound up writing about/to a person. Thanks for this. Great stuff. |
| Leanne from Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3019 posts |
The Celtic relationship with gods and heroes is a much warmer one than in more modern religions. These kinds of chain verse (because one rhyme links to the next line) were typically recited at the fireside -- the coming of a bard was always a big occasion and everyone who was able would gather around. And the wonderful thing about this was, even though the bards knew they were guaranteed an audience they didn't use it as an excuse to be mediocre, as might well happen these days -- rather, it was an obligation to provide the best entertainment possible, for the most rustic settlements as much as for the great courts. |
White_Feather from Here and There 302 posts |
Leanne, Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. It feels so great to have "homework"! Makes me accountable to write something. I don't have a suggestion because I'm such a beginner that anything you throw out there is great fodder for me, but I am wondering if it's better to publish my poetic attempts here on the forum, or link it back to my personal space. |
| Leanne from Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3019 posts |
Whichever you prefer, although I would actually suggest doing it here to keep all the types of form together so that you can get slightly more direct and detailed critique -- anyone happening upon your poem here can immediately see what form you're using. |
Shannon McEwen from Canada 401 posts |
Leanne I need desperate help with my meter. ----- Life is what happens while you wait for great things. |
| Leanne from Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3019 posts |
OK Shan, I will spend some serious time on meter because it's really, really important to make most of these forms work to maximum advantage. First, I need to know how you currently work out your meter and where you think your trouble might be. If, for example, you want to write in iambic pentameter (that's five iambs or daDUMs... two syllables to an iamb, so ten syllables to a line) you might try speaking the line as you naturally would (always avoid unnatural stresses on a word, ie accenting the wrong syllable to make it fit) and then saying "daDUM daDUM daDUM daDUM daDUM" while you're reading it in your head. If the words don't fit into the iambs, you have a problem. Additionally, if you can't sing it, it's not metric (of course, you can still sing things that aren't metric so it doesn't work the other way around). Iambs are the most natural meter for English but obviously not the only one... we might just focus on those for a minute though |
| White_Feather from Here and There 302 posts |
Leanne - I'm not sure that this counts as a form, but would you mind posting something about prose poetry? I'm not really sure what that is, although I *think* I might have written some of it . . . pieces that don't quite fit into either catagory? |
| Leanne from Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3019 posts |
I personally don't believe there is such a thing as "prose poetry". Some people use the term for freeverse that utilises a lot of sentence-like lines -- I actually think it's a bit of an insult to call anyone's poetry prose. You can write "poetic prose" though -- using poetic devices like metaphor and alliteration in your regular sentence/paragraph kind of writing. The other reason people call things prose poetry is because of a lack of poetic device -- straight out statements that are just broken up into a poem-like format. This can be effective but honestly, it rarely is. |
Mosquitobyte 1664 posts |
Personally, I shy away from any set "form". Probably because I don't honestly think I could do justice to any of them. Free verse, whilst being a recognised "form" has the beauty that there are no real rules. Though, like Freestyle swimming, there seems to be an effectively recognised norm, which in that sports case, is the Australia Crawl. Woe to anyone like me who dares swim side stroke in the 100m Free! Having said that, some forms do, as alluded to in an earlier post, lend themselves to certain themes. Free Verse/Free Style, seems particularly suited to works on the self or on, shall we say, politico-relgious topics. Well, that's my tuppence worth. End. Mos. |
Derma Kaput from Possum Grape, Arkansas Associate, 1497 posts |
Good freeverse always creates its own form, in my opinion. The one thing I've noticed in all your poetry, Mosquitobyte, is that it has a fairly tight structure to it. I know that goes against the notion of "form" poetry - preordained structure - but just like a good argument, poetry that works usually (not always) seeks a type of structure that makes it effective - grammatical, rhetorical, audible, and imageristic. It builds to something and does so by imposing shape on language that does something to a reader. As for prose poetry, I tend to agree with Leanne, though notable poets (e.g. Baudelaire) have made strong efforts to write what they called prose poetry. It really brings one to the question of what poetry is. I know that in America many people think it is essentially confessional rhyming quatrains. Sigh. |
| Mosquitobyte 1664 posts |
I'd have to agree with you on that Derma, as I've been posting some of my older stuff so you guys can see my progression, I've noticed a distinct change im my style over the years, which is indeed exactly as you describe, a tight structure that allows my word choices to provide the "looseness" normally conceived of as being Free Verse. Another thing I noted, although I do tend to use metaphor a lot, it's often missed because it's so obscure! lol. Rhyming quatraines........*shakes head and laughs* |
| Leanne from Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3019 posts |
Rhyming quatrains serve their purpose, like all forms -- just not every purpose as the great illiterate mass of bleh would like us to believe. My reply to anyone who says they don't write form is usually: you haven't given it a fair go. Since the body of available forms is so massive, there's always one which will suit -- writing in just free verse is actually very limiting. Form gives extra dimension to the words -- they work for a reason. When they're done right, that is. I've seen some pretty massive screwups. Eliot et al were very vocal about form being restricting and not allowing poetry to breathe. Having read Eliot extensively -- and not to my pleasure -- I find that he, like most people who are anti-establishment, was more interested in setting up a new establishment to suit what he wanted. If, by eschewing form, people genuinely believe they're breaking new ground... well, let's just say these are not writers that I would prefer to emulate. |
| Mosquitobyte 1664 posts |
Leanne: I have to agree whole heartedly with you here. As I said, I myself only ignore the various forms because I don't think I can do them justice. In top of which, Free Verse simply suits my prefered style of writing. Always a pleasure reading your well informed and unbiased comments. End. Mos. |
| Leanne from Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3019 posts |
Well informed, perhaps -- unbiased? Not a chance! I love poetry and hate poets. |
Colleen 518 posts |
Leanne.. forgive my question but how does one determine which form to use... what should I look for when deciding on form.. I know form is suppose to enhance a poem, but what should I be considering when deciding on whether it actually is helping... does my question even make sense?? |
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